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August 17, 2009

Comments

Helen

First of all, I'd like to say that your kids are so beautiful... but it depresses me that Amanda, with all that ability, says she's headed to be "a model or an actress". Well, actress perhaps - Helen Mirren, Joanna Lumley, Streep and others are pretty awesome and intellectually respectable - but a model, erk. You could have the brain of a carrot and do that job.
It's good to keep an eye on your kids education, but don't focus so hard on that that you miss other threats, like the gendered social pressures on girls to be beautiful and famous rather than attempting the kind of career that would really use their huge talents, rather than aiming to be a clothes horse or starlet.

Jolanda: Hi Helen. You will be pleased to hear that Amanda no longer wants to be a model or an actress. That was some years ago and yes she is very beautiful and would make a great model or actress and she certainly was a performer but she has changed her mind and really she doesn't know what she wants to do. Actors/models can make very good careers using their position to enhance their business ventures.


Nathan

I don't understand why you think there is a conspiracy against all of your children. They've done some tests that show they are smart, big deal, they're smart so good on them. They didn't get into a selective school, again, big deal, I think our regular public education is pretty good and certainly produces a lot of people who go on to live happy, healthy lives.

Jolanda: Nathan if you don't understand why there is a conspiracy then you don't understand what has happened so why do you comment? My children's school experiences was not 'really good' and the local public comprehensive schools were not able to cater for their identified needs and this caused my children to become depressed, sick and not want to go to school. If the local public schools had of been good we wouldn't have even bothered with Selective Schools. This isn't about getting a label they were already identified as gifted this was about getting access to a school better able to cater for their identified needs. When you are years and years advanced of your peers the days are long and draining and it isn't one year, it is year after year and it presents as a total waste of their time.

What else have they done apart from these tests? Hopefully more than just the tests! There is more to life than only being labeled "gifted".

Jolanda: You seem to think that this is about being labeled gifted when it is not. This is about students in the public school system whose identified educational needs were being neglected and who were suffering as a result and a parent who had cause to bring the neglect of their education up with the schools and the Minister for Education. As a result of my complaints my children were victimised and vilified and purposely kept out of the schools that they needed to get into in order to meet their identified educational needs. Both my older children scores and results were accessed AFTER the selection committees made their decision and the scores dropped to lower scores so that they would be unsuccessful. Lies and misrepresentation of facts were presented to the selection committees in order to base their decisions. There is so much evidence of bias and misconduct involving all my children that it warrants a proper and fair investigation. But instead the person responsible has closed the complaint and continues to be in a position to bully and abuse children.

I went to a selective school. My teacher suggested I take the test. I got in. Other kids who did the test, who also did as well as me at school didn't get in. Go figure.

Jolanda. Well good luck to you. My children had issues with their tests and achieved results that they said that they had to see to believe so we requested documents under FOI and in those documents there is extensive evidence of bias, manipulation and misconduct. If when you were at school your parents identified bias and corruption in relation to your results would your parents just say and do nothing and tell you to cop it sweet?

The other things I did outside of school were build computers and electronics, something very rare in the 80's but looking back I am amazed at what I did and what I taught myself. I'm now 30 and an industry leader because I've maintained my passion for these machines that run our lives.

Lets see what they do in the next 20 years. Please update your blog through that time about their progress because I'd really like to see them live normal, happy, productive lives. I'd like to see your focus on who they are and what they do achieve rather than what could have been and how they've missed out.

Jolanda. During the years where my children were being bullied, neglected and victimized by the public school system they suffered depression, psychological distress and physical issues. This blog is to focus on the corruption in the DET not on my children. My husband and I support them and protected them. They expect us to fight for their right to be treated fairly and with respect and they want the person responsible dealt with so that she can harm no other child. My children are highly competitive in competition sports and those who like it are also into music and they have a social life, hold down part time jobs and they are popular. Getting high marks has never been their goal, learning, growing and developing has been what we focus on. We are also very big on justice and what is right.

Selective schools don't make great kids what they are, great kids make selective schools what they are. I am sorry your kids didn't get the opportunity, I look back on it with nothing but smiles.

Jolanda. This wasn't about Selective Schools. The schools that they were at said that they didn't have the funding or resources to cater for them as highly gifted children and so the children were being neglected. Then when they missed out on Selective School placement and lost their appeal we sought to shine some light on the process as something was wrong. It isn't our fault that the papers came back with so much evidence of changing of scores, presentation of incorrect scores, deletions, omissions, biased personal opinions, misrepresentation of facts and manipulation of state records.

I have also had the opportunity to work with the DET. Man those guys couldn't conspire to make a cup of black coffee so I can't see how they manage to diddle the figures like you suggest; it would be well beyond their comprehension ;-)

Jolanda. Trust me that these guys could conspire. Take the time to read the evidence and then tell me that you do not see something wrong. When a parent is making allegations of bias and victimization and the person against whom allegations are made has clearly accessed records after a result has been awarded and changed the records to the detriment of the student then something is wrong. When documents are destroyed whilst under an FOI application so that we cannot verify information then something is wrong. When lies and misrepresentations are being spread then something is wrong. These wrongs need to be made right so as to protect the children.

All the best to you and your kids,

Jolanda. Thank you. My kids will be fine Nathan as my husband and I have always supported them but I fear that these people in positions of power have no mercy and they do not care who they damage or hurt. Not all kids come from solid homes and the damage that they can do is extreme. Bullying by exclusion is cruel and purposely denying children access to appropriate education by manipulating state records is a crime.

Nathan

Faten

I should note, that the person who was doing the Iq test for the family friend was astonished at his marks and had never seen a child like him. She told his family that most of the kids that came in, their parents thought their children were geniuses but infact they were not. Iq test have the ability to weed out the 'tutored' children, to the naturally tanted children.

Faten. My children's results were also commented on by a number of Psychologists. In the case of my daughter her result on the SB4 (she hit the ceiling of it) was such that apparently only a handful of people had achieved that result and that was not just in Australia.

It explained why our children didn't fit the system but no matter how high the result the schools response was that 'they didn't have the resources or funding to cater for them' there was no concern about how our children were coping in a system that had such a big mismatch.

Faten

Hi,
I understand what your saying. A family friend of mine did an IQ test and recieved an impressive result in Maths, something like top 5% in the world. His social skills were much to be desired. They were told that he was probably wern't doing well at school, because he was bored with the work, and should be challenged by skipping a year.
When a teacher was notified of the results and what was said, she tried to push the issue aside, but none the less changed him to a higher class.
They were also told, that he probably wont do any better in the higher class because the majority of the class were tutored outside of school and he would be disadvantaged.
The family did not wont him to come first, but just challenged, he is naturally gifted unlike the others students who were tutored on a daily basis outside of school.
Who do you think the school should be trying to help and support?
Teachers are standoffish when pointed towards the error of their ways.

Hi Faten. My children were the same in that their interest wasn't in coming first, it was in learning and being challenged. Lucky for my children they have no social issues. They were also achieving high marks because the level was so below thier ability. Parents would say to me that they wished that they had my families problems but they didn't understand that the children were unhappy, they were depressed they hated school and they didn't want to go as it was a total waste of their time.

It is very hard to get excited about a high mark when the test was so easy that you find it embarrassing. Often my children felt humiliated by the level presented to them.

Not all teachers were bad, some tried their best to help but it wasn't easy as the system isn't set up to cater for intellectually gifted students and they were going against the grain. Schools like the competitive academic type who are more than happy to get their education outside of school and attend school to socialise and compete. My children, wanted to learn at school.

Faten

I suppose jealousy is a curse.
Is this still happening to your primary school children.

Jolanda: HI again: I am not sure if it is a problem just with jelousy. I believe that it is an attitude problem that some educators have in that they believe that they are the only ones who have the expertise and/or authority to identify gifted children (using their criteria of course) and that parents who present thier kids as intellectually gifted (even if they have been identified by professional psychologists) are just pushy and trouble makers.

I know that at the Adminstrative Decisions Tribunal the Leader of the Selective Schools Units sais that 'wealthy' parents who could afford IQ tests just wanted another bite of the cherry and that wasn't equitable. It was as if she believed that Psychologist were unscrupulous and they were paid to present inflated high scores. That coming from somebody who fiddled with scores was interesting!

My children left the public school system some years ago when my husband and I were able to put them into the non Government sector and as of this year I have none in Primary School. Personally I hate the primary school years. As external tests have been manipulated and I am still outspoken there is always concern when it is testing time but my children do not compete in academic competition any more because they cannot deal with the stress.

Faten

Hi Jolanda
Found your post on a PUNCH blog, quick question, why did that Selective school lady single your daughter out?

Ps Keep Fighting.


Hi Faten.

At the time that this all started I was making public and formal complaints about the neglect of the education of intellectually gifted children. So in order to present me as a 'pushy parent' and my children as 'not that gifted' so as to discredit me and ignore my complaints the chidren's test scores and school applications were manipulated so they would be unsuccessful for selective school placement.

When a child misses out on a Selective School place, especially when the parent has publicly identified them as gifted, it sends the message that they student isn't really that smart.

I can't say who gave the original order but I am sure that it had something to do with somebody from my children's school.

harry

Jolanda said: my blog is to show people how the system deals with complaints

No Jolanda it is to show how you perceive the system dealt with YOUR complaints, and thats fair enough.

Many other people complain and are satisfied with how things are dealt with.

Do not assume your problem is universal.

Jolanda: Harry the problem is wide spread.

Just do some research and you will find that there is a reason why people in old people's homes are continously abused, and why DOCS fails children and why Doctors are allowed to continue kill and maim their patients. The list could go on.

BaSH PR0MPT

Found your blog from news.com.au, I just wanted to point out that I see a lot of 'chip on shoulder' blogs in my daily surfing, I try not to write them off and humour them to begin with, but when after ten or so minutes I can't find out what the 'conspiracy' they're claiming is being 'covered up' I tend to write them off. Perhaps actually using the 'About' page you have to provide information of your primary claims it would make you seem less tin foil hat and assist us, random readers, in being empathic to your situation.

Reply: Thanks Bash Prompt. I appreciate your feedback. This has been brought up before and I did try to make it clearer but so many years down the track so much has happend that it becomes a novel. You see when you are being targeted and denied your rights, the more they target you and deny you your rights the more people support those who are targeting you and identify you as the problem. Its the bullying syndrome.

History has also shown that not too many people care about manipulation, bullying and corruption in education by educators unless it involves their children (or at least they will not publicly say that they do) especially if it involves intellectually gifted children and so my blog is there to present what I have identified in the best way that I can so as to expose the Government for their treatment of children and their complaint handling processes and procedures. I really am not aiming to get empathy or assistance, I realised very quickly that nobody cared (although it is always nice when people show concern) my blog is to show people how the system deals with complaints and that there is no avenue to have public servants who abuse their power held to account.


Ray Jamieson

Hi Jolanda,
Ray Jamieson, from Agmates. I read your post there and sensed a whole lot more to it than most will see. And came through to here! WOW! You've been put through the wringer!

Congratulations for the strength you have shown in this. I can only wish you the very best with it all and remember: "nils carborundum illegitimi" - translated roughly - Don't let the B***s grind you down!
Cheers,
Ray

REPLY: Hi Ray

Thank you for your kind words and support.

I do feel like I have been through the wringer and sometimes feel it could drive me insane but I wont give up.

Thankfully technology is making things better now for people who want to expose abuse and corruption in Government Departments. It is so much easier when you don't stand alone.

Nice to meet you.

Custom term papers

It’s a great post Man, you really are a good writer! I’m so glad someone like you have the time, efforts and dedication writing, for this kind of article… Helpful, Useful, and Charitable.. Very nice post!

harry

Jolanda

It seems to me you might be jumping at shadows.

Jolanda: Honestly Harry, how you can say that is beyond me.

Harry: I’ll let you know what happens so you can understand why there are two letters.

When a Ministerial comes in the first action is to give it a RML reference, which you have and then to send it to the relevant area for a draft response.

The relevant areas sends the draft response back to the minister’s office, this is most likely the non-letterhead copy you have. The minister’s office reviews that and if they think it is appropriate they copy it onto letterhead and it’s signed.

Obviously in this case the Minister or his advisors felt the reject letter was too abrupt so they redrafted it and this is the signed copy you have.

Jolanda: Harry the problem isn't the fact that it is too abrupt, the problem is that they both say completely different things and the DET say that the unsigned letter is the legidimate letter?

Harry: At a later date as the emails you have scanned show, it is acknowledged the promised review didn't occur. Why? It must have been felt that well although the minister signed off on a review, this has all been done before (not my words, I’m paraphrasing the thinking that might have gone on) and whoever sent that letter was being over zealous.

Jolanda: Harry the letter is not dated and we are not talking about a review. We are talking about a 'promised investigation' not my words but the words from the Legal Department of the DET.

Harry: We’ve dealt with it before so no need to again…..etc etc. The ombo probably agreed.

Jolanda. Dealt with what before Harry?

Harry: So what I’m saying is that jumping to the conclusion of a cover up and forged letters etc is not how the process works. The only letter that matters is the signed one, but it doesn’t necessarily means that at a later date peoples views can change.

Jolanda: Yes harry the only letter that matters is the signed one and that says that a investigation will be commenced and that I will be contacted. But I wasn't contacted and no investigation has ever taken place and further allegations of bullying and victimisation aimed at my children were filed away on the basis that they related to similar issues and that these issues were investigated and the matter closed. Problem was that there was never an investigation so therefore there was no again....

Harry: I really don’t know at all ,. I’m only guessing how it might have happened and how that then looks like a conspiracy to you.

No that any explanation will change your mind anyway.

Jolanda. There are so many things that have caused me to come to the conclustion and I have compelling evidence to support what I say. I can assure you that I would much have preffered to be wrong but answer sheets were destroyed so that we couldn't verify marks, school applications and results were changed and manipulated, misrepresentations were presented to selection commitees and appeal panels, I was presented as having been deemed vexatious by the Minister when this isn't true, the matter was presented as being investigated when there was no investigation. How much more do you need Harry?

Do you not at least believe that the matter should be investigated as per policy and procedure requires. I would love to be proven wrong. Do you ever wonder why they will not investigate it or challenge what I am saying.

I am not a bad person Harry. I wouldn't have made these accusations unless I was 100% sure. Of that I give you my word.

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