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July 01, 2009

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Cassie O

Why didn't you just apply for your children to go to these high schools in later years, such as year 9 or 10? In most cases, I don't think the DET has a say in this, the principal gets the final say.

CASSIE - We tried once. Problem was that because the SSU had put my families name on a 'special list' anything that my family did in relation to Selective Schools Issues, including applying for other years for Selective School placement, was collected and sent to the Leader of the Selective Schools Unit to deal with first. We have documents under FOI that clearly show that our Year 8 Applications for 4 schools were not dealt with by the School or the Principal as are other students. The appeals panel was also headed and run by persons with allegations of bias and discrimination made against them and they were a voting member. The system is really corrupted and unfair.

We shouldn't have needed to go through all this just to get access to more appropriate education for our children.

X

What I am wondering after looking at these (and not being a Maths person) is whether it's possible that the scores are calculated in some sort of strange percentage way (like the UAI) which means that you can't correlate with actual raw marks.

X...............Even though there is clear evidence of errors, inconsistances and issues I cannot prove manipulation of the original test marks as the Leader of the Selective Schools Unit destroyed the original answer sheets so the results cannot be verified.

However, at the end of the day the score that matters is the score awarded to the student by the Selection Commitee as that is the process. In my children 's case the scores awarded by the Selection Commitees were later changed to lower scores by the Leader of the Selective Schools Unit. This person also presented incorrect, misleading and incomplete information to the Appeals panels>......................

Were your kids satisfied with their HSC marks in the end? I thought that your daughters did go to a selective school, just not the one you wanted?

x................ It isn't about whether my kids were satisfied with their HSC mark. They didn't go to school to get a 'HSC' mark. They went to school to learn and to grow. It should have been a place where they were encouraged and protected from harm>...............

In the end it's also whether you get to go into the career that you want.

x...............The DET were never going to succeed in destroying my children or their careers as my children are strong and proud and they come from a very solid and good home and there are many roads that one can take. If you think that making what should of been some of the best years of their young life miserable is not important then what can I say?>.......................

Rodney Finkelstein

The results of your children are actually quite crappy. It doesn't matter whether they were tampered with or not, they weren't going to make it into a school you wanted them to either way.

Rodney.......... So you are telling me that it doesn't matter if they were tampered with or not that the results are crappy? How can it not matter? If the results are tampered with they are not a true indication?

Rodney Finkelstein

Assuming the raw marks have not been tampered with and just the final score, then yeah, they're horrible.

Rodney. If the raw marks had not been tampered with then the SSU would not have destroyed the original answer sheets whilst part of an FOI application being put before the Tribunal - they would have just presented the original answer sheets to prove that they did nothing wrong.

So tell me what raw marks did you get? Do you know what raw marks produce what scores? Or are you just guessing?

In any event even if a student who always showed themselves to be high achieving and who was formally identified as highly intellectually gifted and who had spent years being educationally neglected in the comprehensive system, and who had been fighting the DET for appropriate education, choked on the day due to stress, surely if the student produced clear evidence of intellectual giftedness and showed clear evidence of high achievement and showed clear evidence of a recognised need for a more appropriate learning environment, surely, when the student appealed and clearly produced documentary evidence to support their claim, they should given a place especially when the SSU give places to Private School students who are already in optimal learning environments - it is neglect?

So is there absolutely no circumsances that you think that a identified gifted public school student should be eligible for a place in a Selective School if the comprehensive school cannot meet thier needs?

Oh and Rodney, If my children heard of this happening to someone they would be outraged that a system can do this to a child/student. They would feel for the student, be angry at the system and they would have compassion and empathy and want to help. That so many students feel nothing but contempt for these fellow students, students that they do not even know, is really scary and it makes you wonder what sort of education our children are receiving today when nobody cares about what is right and bullies and those who fail in thier duty of care are the ones who are protected.

Rodney Finkelstein

Well, school scores were 100 and 100, and E/M/G scores of 39/40/51

Keep in mind, just because I scored full marks in both school and the test for mathematics, it does not mean I got a 100 score for maths. There's such a thing called scaling. Generally, scaling DOWNgrades your final score. As a result, I ended up with 92. Maybe that's what happened?

Rodney - Why dont you post a copy of your marks letter so that everybody can see what you mean? What is the bet that your componet score wasn't 92 out of 40?????

Oh and why do you continue to ignore what is going on and just focusing on the original marks. I have told you many times that the DET destroyed the answer sheets so that they couldn't be verified. We also asked for certified true and accurate copies of our children's test results and they showed inconsistancies and errors including too many answers to the amount of multiple choice questions.

Why do you NOT want to believe that the system is corrupted? Why would you prefer to believe that I am just some sort of crazy mother and a liar. This way of thiking comes across as young people having no respect for mothers, adults or each other?

Rodney Finkelstein

Because its just one case. Why would they tamper with YOUR children's scores and not others? What makes you better/more important than all the other people?

Rodney: Please listen to what you are saying! How can being the targets of bullying and victimisation be seen as meaning you are better/more important than all the other people? What has happened is victimisation/discrimination.

My families case is not the only one. The Selective Schools Unit has an attitude against intellectually gifted students. I know of other families who have been dealt with the same way and the Department knows of these others as they have lodged formal complaints, and the Ministers know and the Ombudsman knows, ICAC knows - and what do they do? NOTHING>>>>> Do you think that is the right way for things to be run?

Rodney Finkelstein

Seems to work. Not really my problem to start with. Have fun with your case.

Rodney. It doesn't work. The system is grossly unfair and it is corrupted. It is a shame that people have to wait until it impacts them. Today we have people in the DET who are prejuiced against gifted children and parents who speak out. Tomorrow it might be one who dislikes high achieving Asians and when the process is set up to cover up bias, manipulation and misconduct anything can happen.

Nina

All these years, all this fuss, just because the department are crap at working out one third of one mark, two thirds are another, and adding the figures together?

Jolnada: So Nina you are happy with a Selective System being unable to add up marks that result in a student being offered or missing out on a place in a Selective School. Would you feel that way if it was your child? Or do you only feel that way because they were my children?

Come of it, you can't possibly be serious!

Jolanda: Dead serious Nina and until all the records are amended to reflect the truth I will not stop and then I am going to write a book to expose them. They cannot treat people like this and expect to get away with it.

The lower scores weren't "manipulated", they were the right scores, with the first scores having been calculated incorrectly - obviously they're bad at maths.

Jolanda: You cannot be serious with what you say and what you are prepared to accept. In any event I have evidence that the lower scores are calculated incorrectly.

As for the very first comment, very good point. As always you have an excuse "but, but, but, but", it's like a whiny child who always has someone else to blame for the budgie getting out of the bird cage.

What a pathetic spectacle.

Jolanda. You are the one who is coming across as pathetic Nina because you should be supporting the children and our right to be treated fairly and to be afforded procedural fairness and natural justice. That you do not says more about you than about me. I am just exercising my rights.

With two of the children now at university, time to give it a rest.

Jolanda. No rest until all the records reflect the truth that is our right under FOI. Nobody can give back to my children what was taken from them and nobody can turn back time but the DET have created an internal lie about my children and family and I will not rest until that situation is rectified as we have been vilified and defamed and we do not deserve it.

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